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tv   The Daily Rundown  MSNBC  September 25, 2013 6:00am-7:01am PDT

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i'm so excited about what he will promise at the top of the show. he will stand and talk. until he can no longer speak. "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. >> the ted talk. still cruising. 18 hours and counting. the senator from texas is not holding up in the senate. will his hold in court actually do something? could it end up helping harry reid and the democrats in their battle with speaker boehner. as cruz was getting started, president obama was sitting down with president clinton. by the way, today it will be hillary's turn to take her place and discuss women decision makers. that impromptu on purpose hello between president obama and the
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reigning president, it never happened. iran's new leaders struck a moderate tone in his address and does not like his tweets. we will get the latest on the action in tehran. good morning from washington. it's wednesday, september 25th, 2013. this is "the daily rundown." let's get to the first reads of the morning. i guess it's all over, but the shouting, ted cruz is in his 19th hour of his marathon talk by midday today at least when it comes to the bail is trying to block. this will signify nothing. the point is to disrupt or delay. his effort has done neither. he doesn't have the votes to prevent them from taking up the bill. that vote will take place today as scheduled. that makes what is doing on the floor on screen a fake buster. cruz began speaking at 2:41 p.m.
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eastern time when he took the floor and called on fellow republicans to join him. >> i intend to speak in support of defending obama care until i am no longer able to stand. >> hour after hour, cruz railed on. you can't help but look at this and think this was the world's longest presidential stump speech. >> most americans could not give a flying flip about a bunch of politicians in washington. who cares? almost all of us are in cheap shoes with bad cuts. this is not a team sport. this is life and death. it's like the world wrestling federation. obama care is far less than intimidating than those i discussed with the possible exception of the moon. neville chamberlain who told the british people except the nazis,
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they will dominate the continent of europe. i'm a big fan of eating white castle burgers. i do so like green eggs and. thank you, thank you, sami am. >> one more we would have added, an interesting "star wars" reference. he got nazis in there and white castle and "star wars." you get the picture. less than a week before a possible government shut down, he was greeted with vocal opposition from fellow republicans who say he is jamming the house and leaving speaker boehner no time to amend a bill and republicans are going to end uptaking the blame for the shut down if it happens. they are going to blame cruz. >> we would be hard pressed to explain why we were opposed to a bill we were in favor of. invoking closure on a bill, it doesn't raise taxes and respects
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the budget control act. it struck me as a no brainer. if the house doesn't get what we send over there, they are in a tough spot. >> this is what makes -- what ted cruz is trying to filibuster, though he can't. the actual house bill he wanted to see the house pass. that's why this is confusing for even something like mitch mcconnell. no senate bills inside and out. traditionally a ally spoke out in what was a contentious meeting with senate republicans. before going to the floor, he made it clear he is not in favor of shutting down the government. it's a striking difference between the cruz effort and the actual filibuster earlier this year. he was trying to bring attention to the issue that he didn't think was getting attention. he ended up doing that and got bipartisan attention and support from republicans. even republican who is disagreed
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with him and ended up voting the other way, they showed up to give him support. cruz has just about every member agreeing him in principal and not wanting to stand up next to him. less than a quarter of the conference supported what he is doing and only about a handful of them went on the senate floor in support. rand paul and senator wendy davis endeared members of their own party, ted cruz seems to have fewer friends today than last night. cruz does have an audience and it's a big one. since the senate became a tv show, this is about exposure more than anything else. he does have an audience in the conservative grass roots with the washington elites. here's club for growth. the senate conservative fund are supporting what he is doing. don't forget this about building
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a bigger flat form for a guy named ted cruz. by alienating many, cruz may have just helped smooth away for there to be a shut down deal. at this point there is a sense of some republicans that his strategy is about driving the party off the cliff while he gets to stand at the edge and not jump. they believe they have another bite at the apple and the fight ahead. house republicans will consider a bill that would extend the ceiling by a year including a one-year delay of the health care law. despite cruz on the senate floor, one of the key components opens their doors. the public can sign up for health insurance via exchanges. hoping to recreate what was a political magic show for president obamaburg the 2012 democratic convention that helped the president's
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reelection campaign, mr. o damma shared the stage with bill clinton to relaunch or relaunch the health care pr effort. she had fun introducing the two men. >> they are both left-handed. they both love golf, a game that does not often reciprocate the love they put into it. they both are master politicians. they have fabulous daughters. they each married far above themselves. >> seated in arm chairs, the two presidents had what was built on health care reform, they went through familiar arguments in favor of the law. bill clinton did it better with a southern sales pitch presenting criticisms of the law than knocking them down. >> what i was terrified of is we would open these things and
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there was only one company showing up. we would be having an academic conversation. instead it led to the establishment of more companies doing more bidding. so far it's good, but i think it's important for you to tell the people why we are doing all of this outreach. this only works, for example, if young people show up. >> there was another big positive that drove home the point that the democratic party is united on health care. the point the president meat not so subtly when he brought up ted cruz. >> it has been a little political, this obama care thing. when asked why is it that you shut down the government at this point just to block obama care? he basically fessed up and said once consumers get hooked on
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having health insurance and subsidies, they won't want to give it up. you can look at the transcript. >> we told you before when it comes to policy and budget disputes, the party is united and always beats the party that isn't. it's hard to look at the gop and view them as a party that is united. the most immediate push is about getting consumers to sign up. president obama claims signing up will be as easy as buying a plane tick or flat screen tv. >> i can tell you that in many states across the country, if you are a 27-year-old young woman, don't have health insurance, you get on that exchange you will be able to purchase high quality health insurance for less than the cost of your cell phone bill. >> the white house is unveiling a report which they state shows that the first detailed look at
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premiums for health insurance in 36 states will run insurance markets. the second lowest cost silver plan will run an average of $328 a month and that's just for individuals. premiums for a family of with an annual income of $50,000 will range from $6600 in arizona to over $1200 in wyoming. they don't name the insurance companies that will give information about policies that are more expensive than those listed in this report. coming up, after lots of hype and hopes for a brief hand shake between the president and iran's new leader, the grip and grin didn't happen. what the misconnection might mean for the mideast. new pictures from inside that mall in nairobi. we have an exclusive look at the aftermath and an update. it appears the hostage crisis is finally over. a look ahead at the politics
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planner. lots of interesting things going on. vice president biden showing up today. not there at the exact same time as hillary clinton, but perhaps she will introduce him. you are watching "the daily rundown" on msnb, c. ♪ ♪ (announcer) answer the call of the grill with new friskies grillers,
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>> it's been fascinating, this crazy triple screen we had going yesterday. another network tried to show a triple screen without showing anything at the time. the point was a lot of stuff was happening yesterday. on the floor of the senate at the global initiative. what was happening diplomatically that may impact a
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lot of people around the world. what? history will have to wait a little while for the next breakthrough. after the highly anticipated chance encounter between president obama and the new iranian president at the un materialized. it would have been the first such meeting in 36 years. the iranian leader said there was no sufficient time to coordinate the meeting. they were also worried about how an image of the two men shaking hans would be received in iran. nevertheless president obama said he hopes it means the two countries can work together. >> i don't believe this difficult history can be overcome over night. the suspicions run too deep. i do believe that if we can resolve the issue of iran's nuclear program, that can serve as a major step down a long
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roads towards a differently relationship. one based on mutual interests and mutual help. . >> hours later he spoke about the possibility of a new diplomatic effort, but his words were less conciliatory than his tweets and harsher than the u.s. would have liked. >> translator: the political will of the leadership in the united states and hoping that they will refrain from following the short sided interest, a war-mongering pressure groups, we can arrive at a framework to manage our differences. >> he did say that the political climate at home has changed. he has given his poliblessing tw negotiations. in the meantime, he told cnn he
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does have a message for the american people. >> i bring peace and friendship from iranians to americans. >> remember hand shake aside, the president announced that he gave john kerry the go ahead to do some on one talks with his iranian counterpart. we have the tehran bureau chief. just that announcement alone that there is going to be on one talks between the united states and iran at the foreign minster secretary of state level. how is that received in iran. >> that are is hugely important. there is not that level of force between an iranian foreign minster for decades. that initial step is going to be a huge thing.
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going back to the hand shake, that had an adverse effect here in iran. people were expecting to see that and hoping for a more conciliatory tone. the currency market fell 5% against the dollar this morning. these things are careful low balanced and people watch these things closely and they are expecting to happen and doesn't happen. it has an adverse effect. they were talking to people and people were expecting a much soft every tone. maybe his tone was softer, but the substance had not changed. same old differenceses and that discouraged a lot of people. the proof of the pudding is going to be when they meet to talk and trying to come to a nuclear negotiating deal. if they can't do that, we are back to square one. chuck? >> it seems as if iranians see
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the view that he refused to do the hand shake that didn't want to do the staged hand shake and used as an excuse that he wanted a more meaningful discussion that said that was off the table for now. >> absolutely. i think there was a lot of expectations from the regular americans to shake mr. obama's hand, but he has to answer to very hard line figures here which would have been very, very against that. none the less, it would have been the right move to try to build bridges with the united states. unfortunately it didn't have to happen. that makes many people upset here. who knows what's going to happen on future meetings. >> thanks very much. in kenya, the stand up and hostage crisis appears to be over at the shopping mall. the investigation and now the funerals are beginning.
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exclusive new video showing the terrifying scenes inside the west gate mall as soldiers hunted the gang of armed terrorists while shoppers tried desperately to get out. a portion of the mall collapsed during the military operation that did secure the building. bomb disposal experts and investigators are searching through the rubble looking for more bodies and evidence. they declared three days of morning begin today. 61 civilians were killed and six soldiers and five of the terrorist gunmen. 11 more gunmen believed to be from the somali terrorist groob al shabaab are said to be in custody. coming up, if it's wednesday, we have got election results. boston issic approximating a new mayor and alabama a new congressman. what if you could spend a year on the sidelines with your favorite team? i will talk to them.
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the party that controlled the white house won the virginia governor's race. the first person to tweet the correct answer will get the on share shout out. we'll be right back. is just a tap away. ♪ introducing at&t digital life... ♪ ...personalized home security and automation... [ lock clicks ] ...that lets you be closer to home. that's so cool. [ male announcer ] get $100 in instant savings when you order digital life smart security. limited availability in select markets. ♪
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long. in alabama. bradley burn and dean young will advance to a run off in the district special election. 61% reporting. bob burn has 63% of the vote. they face off in the run off election on november 5th. the winner will advance to the special general election. it's a very republican district. more of the establishment and young more of the tea party. they may see a split there. in virginia, they show republican candidate for lieutenant governor is outperforming his running mate ken cuccinelli with less than two months to the election. hoe is traveling by three points. 44-41 while cuccinelli is trialing by five. we saw them square off in the first debate. jackson has been scrutinized by social issues and took the opportunity to talk about returning the country to jump into the capitol hill showdown
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debate. we don't need a government shut down. it's not just republicans. even local politicians are getting in on the act. the center for american progress and the president and ceo of the round table and a former republican governor himself of minnesota, tim pawlenty. let me start with you. what do you think of what you are seeing with mr. cruz? >> we are seeing an individual who feels strongly that obama care is wrong are if the count radioy and wants to make sure he sends the message that the fight is not over. i think he realizes in this chapter that obama care is not going to be repealed some. >> does he? >> he has to. obviously the president is not going to repeal it in this moment and the senators are not so he is trying to take this opportunity to say look, the fight is not over and i'm going to fight as far as i can.
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you can agree or disagree, but that's what he is trying to do. >> that's what i'm scratching my head on. he hook the easiest way out to make it like like he's not. he just found time to speak. it's jump a long speech. he's not delaying or tactically delaying the senate or stopping it from taking up this bill. >> that's what the appeal of ted cruz is. it's all about tone and being the loudest fighter and the biggest shouter against this bill that everybody hates. what he is doing is not going to accomplish anything and delay the vote. it's not a real filibuster, but i hear from conservatives from someone who said they are just talking. if the don't goal is to be more of a fighter than anybody else and purely symbolically, he is doing that and people think good for him.
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>> we are seeing for the first time he has come to the floor, there was somebody saying this morning, days ago it looked like the president was in a rough spot politically. he was getting beaten up by members of both parties on syria and new polls were coming out showing that it wasn't in good shape and somehow this conservative was saying ted cruz helped rehabilitate the president. do you feel that way? >> it helped. ted is providing entertainment for a lot of people. i would say that i think there is house republicans who wish he would do more than just grandstand and put bite behind the words he is saying. it goes to show in politics a week is a time and it's amazing to see last week he was up and this week he's down. >> this whiplash nature that we in the media contribute to it because we grab whatever is
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interesting in the moment. now politicians are taking advantage and it is shut down governing. you had to make deals and people attacked you because you made deals in the legislature. is governing a lost art? >> no, but there realities. a fusion of news and politics and entertainment in a way that is enabling some of these behaviors. it's not limited to what we are seeing this week. they are on both sides of the aisle. things get done in a way in either crisis consenseis or leadership. that's in the form of dead lines. the can gets kicked down the road. what do we have consensus. you would be hard pressed to look at this senate and house and say there is consensus around any large issue. finally leadership. who is willing to take the hits from the general public or their
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own party to be the pragmatist to get things done and move the country forward. ha is in short supply. >> it will be interesting watching john boehner. i feel like he set up ted cruz to be the excuse why he ends up shutting down the government. we are handing the ball to you. it's up to you. if you can't get it done, woe will have to go another way. he left out that part of it. it was implied in the conversation. would you be surprised if boehner ends up forcing a showdown here or does he punt and go debt ceiling. >> he is trying to loaf his members towards the fight. i think there a lot of conservative members who feel like he promised this over and over again and the next thing they are going to fight on. the hill to die on and they will will have that fight. i think that's the way he is going. you saw this outpouring of
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members of the house. loud on the record angry republicans in the house yelling at ted and being angry at him because they felt like he made them do this and he can't hold up his end of the bargain. so i think boehner may be able to channel that anger to get them to agree to whatever deal gets made. >> look at what the two periods did together. do you need him out there and what is it you saw that you thought geez, where was this months ago? >> the timing is right and we are about to enter into the health care laws. we have short attention spans. i think it was great and people called splint explaining stuff. you will see more of this happening over the next couple of weeks. to pausch back on the american
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people and don't like obama care, they do support this bill and don't support defunding it. the president and president clinton you will see more out there. >> this is what the frustration is on all these issues. you said there was no consensus. you can find things that there 80% of the public on. it seems like the two parties don't want to give up something that they are 20% favorable for. >> if you look at obama care and the polls bounce around a little bit. it's divided. it might be 55-45, but the country is devoidivided on that. there subgroup politics that are intense that explain part of this as well. we have to rise above these things and say it's not limited to the president. i'm willing to take this on.
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>> one of the newer things will look back and say the leaders were not prepared. cruz is on the floor and you guys are coming back. i have to go with football. tonight is fight night in virginia. i am moderating a debate. you can watch it on the live stream. here in washington you see it on channel 4 and you can follow along on twitter. va. goff debate in taking part in a google hang out. what else would you do after a debate. a big debate preview on why the republican may have more to prove tonight than the democrats. you can keep up with the behind the scenes action including pictures from back stage at tonight's debate. follow us on instagram. king of sports is in royal trouble on a whole lot of
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levels. why do fans stay loyal while football grapples with safety issues and using local tax dollars while making millions in profits every year. the tuesday morning quarterback. that's next. ... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders. [ boris ] put 'em on my spark card. [ garth ] boris' small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase every day. great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. read back the chicken's testimony, please. "buk, buk, bukka!" [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase every day. told you i'd get half. what's in your wallet?
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and when the pounds still come off... we'll be like, "whoa!" wow! wow! weight watchers. because it works. join for free. offer ends october 19th. congress. >> ted cruz has been speaking for 19 hours and counting. the senate is expected to take a vote on the house bill that funds the government and defuns health care reform. both are weighing options senator, good morning. >> good morning. >> i would like to know, we know that you vote at 1:00 today and
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that is the motion to proceed. that's the beginning of this debate. we know that democrats plan to strip out the language that would defund the president's health care law. the question i have for you, what other changes do you plan on making? number one, you want to shorten the period of this temporary funding bill from expiring december 15th to november 15th. do you plan on putting any sweeteners for republicans to support this bill? >> we are talking about making sure that we fund our government so that we can function as a country. in the short-term in the next month or so, we can coming to o on the bigger agreement on how to invest in education and transportation and make sure our troops are cover and veterans get the care they need and people have access to health care in the country. that's what we need to be talking about and because we have been prevented from getting
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there, we are in this short-term crisis and need to fund government responsibly while we get to the big are discussion that we have got to get to. >> what makes november 15th for the time for them to expire? >> what democrats want to do is put a date on it of november 15th for this short-term extension which helps us get to a point where we can get to the counterparts and how do we want to get to the government. there is a not of government that we need to replace with smarter cuts and it's hurting our economy and our jobs and our communities. we have to figure out how to do that responsibly sooner rather than later. no one wants to be here on christmas eve and new year's eve figuring this out. we want to get this done and that's why we are moving the date to november 15th. >> we are going to put in jeopardy and not christmas.
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i'm kidding. when you send this bill to the house, are you going to at anything else to it? the repeal on medical devices that appears to have bipartisan support. is that going to be auddded to send it back to speaker boehner? >> are this is a clean resolution to allow our government to function. it is not where we should negotiate some other deals. let's get this done and then we can have a debate about the other issues and put it in our budget which is what we should focus on. >> senator schumer implied that the leadership that you guys in the senate were negotiating with house republicans on how this ends by midnight, september 30th. you can let me in on some of these negotiations. >> few people are interested in
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whether or not ted can stay awake all night. the roads they drive on are safe or troops are being taken care of or whether they have access to health care. all of that is within the confines of the greater debate that we are going to get to and what all of us want to do is get a clean crp and have the house pass that and let's sit down and do what we have been trying to do since we passed our budget, sit down and have a discussion and a debate and a compromise on these bigger issues that are so important. >> are you going to get the senate bill to john boehner by friday? >> the senate rules allow ted and others to delay as long as they want to under certain time constraints. by sunday we will have a bill back to the house and that's
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what we need to do. they can pass it and we can get to the bigger debate. >> sunday will only give boehner 24 hours. thanks very much. coming up, our love and hate relationship with the king of sports. unsensored sports from the better teams of the country. white house soup of the day is simply lentil. ♪ that's why we designed the subaru forester from the back seat forward. the intelligently designed, responsibly built, completely restyled subaru forester. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.
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the league settled with players in a class action lawsuit for $755 million. even president obama said if he had a son, he would have to think long and hard before he would let him play football. could woe make football more safe and fair without destroying what attracts us to the game? my next guest calls it the king of sports and he wrote about the game and provided analysis for the networks. what was interesting about your box and also about reading you all the time, we love football and you seem like some of the fans are very nervous about the state of the game. it's never been more popular or profitable and in crisis. >> in the debate which you know very well, you are either for something or against something. if you like and appreciate something and be a waer that it has deep seeded flaws. it's never been more popular, but the future has never been in
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more jeopardy. if you change the game so that it would be just as popular and exciting, but no longer notorious and less of a threat to the public. >> who should be leading this? the last time i had you on, we were focussed on safety. it was unbelievable to you that the nfl is not taking the lead on mandating a helmet that should be worn. >> they are starting to say the right things, but only changing when they are forced to. >> i have done that too. >> it's hard to avoid that mistake. the ncaa has to be pushed and by far the majority of players at college level and high school, 1.2 million boys and a handful of girls, that's where most people are playing. there is no central authority. i think i would love to see you
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jump right in. i would love to see barack obama take the lead on this. teddy roosevelt in 1905 ran a white house initiative to make football safer. he has been treated kindly by doing so. i would like love to see barack obama get involved in this issue as a leader because the nfl owners are not going to be anything voluntariliment they have to be pushed. >> so just sticking on the safety issue, you made a point about everybody is getting bigger and stronger. the offensive line and they average 262 pounds. they had no one ha weighed over 300 pounds. an undrafted player, derrell brown for the rams, 6'10" and 377 pounds. we are turning a blind eye to the same they think happened with baseball writers. we know something is going on in
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football. this doesn't make sense that people the size of these guys can run as fast as they can. do we have a drug problem and we are not dealing with it? >> we can a pain killer problem in football. population as a whole exceed deaths for illegal overdoses. we have a pain killer problem that nobody talks about and they won't disclose numbers on. the country's most popular and most successful sport, guys are popping pills to play fearless low, that's the example they set. you have a weight gain problem on the perfect team. nobody over 300 pounds. 13 of the 22 starters in the most recent super bowl were over 300 pounds. we have an obesity epidemic. i think football is a lot where cigarettes were in the 50s. nobody wants to talk about the problems, but they are there and
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not going away. >> if parents start pulling their kids from the game, every baseball game i'm with, all the fathers have this conversation and we are split down the goingt our sons play football. i don't know. >> the king of sports covers youth, high school, college and the pros. youth, i give a lot of details, but i think nobody should play football before middle school. the academic research on it just more from virginia tech yesterday is open and shut on that. don't play football until you're in middle school. tackle football. >> i saw you one time write something that says you wouldn't let your son do it until they were at least 12. >> yes. >> anyway, the book is fantastic. i wish i could have more time. that's what happens when you do a political show. tuesday morning quarterback, one of the best things i read every week. trivia time. the last time the party that controlled the white house and won the virginia governor's race was 1973 when richard nixon was
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in the white house and mills godwin won in virginia. he was a democrat who turned republican. congratulations to today's winner. spatula city. got to love these trivia handles. send your suggestions to daily we'll be right back. as a working mom of two young boys life could be hectic. angie's list saves me a lot of time. after reading all the reviews i know i'm making the right choice. online or on the phone, we help you hire right the first time. with honest reviews on over 720 local services. keeping up with these two is more than a full time job, and i don't have time for unreliable companies. angie's list definitely saves me time and money. for over 18 years we've helped people take care of the things that matter most. join today.
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these are live pictures here. hillary clinton is at the clinton global initiative. she's speaking about women's issues today. let's bring back our gaggle. molly, if somehow the clinton global initiative could become a bigger part of the democratic party, it has, it was sort of -- obama was sort of going to the clinton house yesterday. it was sort of an interesting thing. the clintons really are reminding people they're kind of in charge of the democratic party again.
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>> and they certainly will be even more if hillary ends up running, right. but we've had some of these damaging stories come out, particularly about the clinton global initiative. i think you start to see chinks in that facade and a little bit of a preview of what she would be up against if she jumps into this race. >> danielle, she's got to insulate herself because this is the same stuff we heard six years ago. >> yes. >> there's too much ink connected to the clintons. >> and one would think that you learn from the past so i have to manl that the team that she is assembling around her now would know how to respond to this better. >> how formidable do you think hillary clinton is to the republican party. >> she will be formidable. keep in mine, she was supposed to be unbeatable last time. if she's just formidable, that's not as bad as unbeatable. >> are you amazed that the clintons have a hold over the democratic party that the bushes simply don't in the republican party? >> with all due respect to president bush, he's turned his attention to channel his energies in other ways. he's not trying to be in the
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limelight. and so he's trying to serve in quieter ways and doing things like hosting golf tournaments for wounded warriors and things like that and has taken himself off the stage primarily. >> shameless plugs. molly, you first. >> my own piece leading the right now about the fall of the heritage foundation and the death of republican ideas. >> oh. >> everybody go read that. >> you're going to plug her thing. >> today's center for american progress is releasing a report looking at women across all 50 states and how they fare. maryland comes in first, louisiana last. check it out on our website. >> and the same day that hillary clinton is speaking about women's issues. is that a coincidence? >> as we live more of our lives on our electronic devices, cyber security is important. there's a cyber security summit to make sure those are as secure as possible. >> take a look. mine is watch the virginia governor's debate tonight. channel 4, live stream, c-span, in a lot of places. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." we'll be back tomorrow at 9:00. coming up, chris jansing.
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bye-bye. i'm meteorologist bill karins with your business travel forecast on this wednesday. showers and thunderstorms in the southeast, maybe minor delays for commuters and especially those at the airports in tampa and orlando. otherwise a beautiful day across the country. notice we're in the 80s and 90s from texas northward and even 70s all the way up to the canadian border. enjoy a really nice wednesday. americans take care of business.
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good morning. i'm chris jansing. 19 hours and counting. senator ted cruz had vowed to stay on the floor until he couldn't stand up anymore. and he is still standing and he's talked about everything from his choice of footwear to nazis. here are some of the highlights or lowlights, depending on your perspective. >> do you like green eggs and ham? i do not like them, sam i am. i do not like green eggs and ham. most americans could not give a flying flip about a bunch of politicians in washington. who cares? you know, almost all of us are in cheap suits with bad hair cuts. who cares? could you, would you with a goat? i'm a big fan of eating white castle burgers. i am not in my argument boots,


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